No announcement yet.

General Robot Rules - Answer Thread

This is a sticky topic.
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • General Robot Rules - Answer Thread

    The answers to your Robot Rules Questions pertaining to General Robot Rules are provided in this thread.
    Last edited by Administrator; 09-13-2016, 05:06 PM.

  • #2
    <GS2> Particle Scoring Eligibility & Game Manual Part 1 Section 5.3.1

    Section 5.3.1 of the Game Manual Part 1 asks teams to reflect on their Robot's design and the question: “If everybody did this, would the game play be impossible? If the answer to the question is yes, the design component is probably not allowed."

    VELOCITY VORTEX is played with Particles that are Scored in goals and recycled back to the Playing Field for continuous game play. The Game Design Committee's intent is for open recycling, where Scored Particles return to random locations on the Playing Field Floor so that both Robots on an Alliance have an equal opportunity to access, Control, or Possess their Alliance's Scored Particles. A closed recycling game strategy that denies a reasonable opportunity for an Alliance Partner Robot to access, Control, or Possess a Scored Particle is not in the spirit of the FIRST Tech Challenge and is not allowed. Game play with closed recycling of Particles would be impossible and unfair to Alliance Partners. Therefore, Robot designs and/or game strategies that deny their Alliance Partner equal access to Scored Particles, is considered to be a violation of rule <GS2>.


    • #3
      RE12 - Lenses

      Originally posted by FTC8391
      Are wide-angle lenses (to be used with the phone camera) legal?
      A: Yes, lenses for use with the phone camera are legal.


      • #4
        RM02 - TileRunner

        Originally posted by FTC2844
        Alot of discussion is buzzing around the forums about the Andymark TileRunners Drivetrain.

        Question: Is is legal?
        A: Yes, the TileRunner kit because it comes unassembled and is made of legal components is legal.


        • #5
          RG03 - Flip Up Phone

          Originally posted by FTC4042

          My team has been very keen on using the camera on the phone for addressing the beacons. However, we have found that using the rear camera is a lot more reliable than the front facing one. So we were wondering if it would be possible to make a case that could flip open easily by releasing a quick clip, revealing the screen. Would this pass rule <RG03> because it is visible, easily accessible and protects the phone. Thanks.

          Team 4042
          A: The Android device screen needs to be accessible and visible at all times. If there is a cover over the screen, it needs to be transparent and easy to open. Phones that are buried in the bot or difficult to access could result in the inability of FTAs to resolve on-field issues without delaying the start of the match.

          Tip from the Game Design Committee: Field Technical Advisors that are not familiar with your Robot may need quick access to the Robot Controller Android device touch screen display to perform Robot triage when there is a very limited amount of time for repairing Robots before the start of the Autonomous or Driver-Controlled Periods. Covers that open by quick and intuitive actions will save the Field Technical Advisor time that (s)he can devote to solving the problem before time runs out.
          Last edited by Broadway Joe; 10-03-2016, 04:57 PM.


          • #6
            RM01 - Vision Targets

            Originally posted by FTC0542
            Our team is concerned about the possibility of other teams putting copies of the Vision Targets on their robot and confusing our program. Are other teams allowed to put Vision Targets on their robots?
            A: No, teams are not allowed to place Vision Targets on their robots. It is against the spirit of the game for teams to interfere with the sensors of other robots.


            • #7
              &lt;RG08&gt; Launching Game Scoring Elements - Particle Elevation Constraint

              Originally posted by FTC0359
              Question: Is it legal for the mechanical capability of a particle launcher to exceed 6 ft in elevation if the robot is limited by software to use a reduced percentage of the full power of the launcher? This would mean that the robot particle launcher will be programmed to have an upper limit of 5 ft 11 inches.

              Answer: Yes.


              • #8
                RG03 Robot Controller Location

                Originally posted by FTC10138
                Hi. We're looking for some clarification of Rule RG03 for the Robot Controller phone location and position. In attempting to use Vuforia, it would be most ideal to use the significantly higher resolution REAR facing camera and have this mounted low and in the "middle-front" of the robot. Unfortunately (as we found at a tournament over the weekend), this seems to be in conflict with

                In considering the desire to use Vuforia to its intended full potential, can you address the following (or adjust as needed to convey a proper reply)
                1. Can the phone be considered accessible if there were a rubber band that let it flip around or tip outward easily by the ref?
                2. Can the phone be considered accessible if there were a lever that let the phone flip around or tip outward by the ref?
                3. Can there be a mirror mounted to reflect the screen for the ref, although touching the screen would still be hindered and the image would be reversed?
                4. Provide a suggested mounting method that would satisfy <RG03> and permit the use of the rear camera.

                Thanks! FTC 10138
                A1: No
                A2: No
                A3: No
                A4: Mounting locations are dependent on the robot design so it is impossible to suggest a mounting position.

                Tip from the Game Design Committee: Field Technical Advisors that are not familiar with your Robot may need quick access to the Robot Controller Android device touch screen display to perform Robot triage when there is a very limited amount of time for repairing Robots before the start of the Autonomous or Driver-Controlled Periods. This is the reason why the Android device screen needs to be accessible and visible at all times.


                • #9
                  RM01 - Maximum Gear Ratio

                  Originally posted by FTC11123
                  What is the maximum gear ratio that is allowed?
                  A: There are no rules limiting the gear ratios that can be used.


                  • #10
                    RG01 - Wedgetop Tread

                    Originally posted by FTC5436
                    My team had a question about the use of wedge top tread on our robot. <RG01> states that materials which could damage playing field components (such as high grip tread) are banned from use on the playing field, but my team does not intend to use wedge top tread to drive our robot. Instead, we want to use it to power our button pusher by having a wheel drive along a piece of wedge top tread. It works basically as a substitute for rack and pinion.

                    My question is this: since our wedge top tread is never at any point making direct contact with the field or any of its components, can we still use it on our robot even though it is technically outlawed in the game manual? Thank you!
                    A: High grip tread (including wedgetop) may not be used in contact where it can damage the field (tiles, ramp, base, etc). All other uses are allowed including as a pad to push the bacon button.


                    • #11
                      RG01 - Tread

                      Originally posted by FTC6085
                      Hopefully I'm posting in the right place! We would like to use the following tread and would like to know if it is acceptable:

                      Blue Nitrile Roughtop Tread, 1" Wide, Thickness 0.28, Coefficient of Friction on tight pile: 1.19, Tread material: Carbox Nitrile Rubber, Tread Pattern: Roughtop.


                      Steve Morales

                      FTC Team #6085
                      A: The GDC has not tested all possible tread and tire combinations and therefore cannot answer this specific question. During Mechanical Inspection team may be asked to demonstrate that their choice of tread will not damage the tile floor during a match when (if) the bot is pushing hard against a wall or another bot and spinning it's wheels. The test will be to place the robot against an immovable surface (wall) and run the wheels at full power for 15 seconds. If there is any physical damage to the floor tile then the wheels/tread will not be allowed. Discoloration or black marks alone are not considered field damage. Remember, the test must be made with the robot at the weight the bot will be at during a match since this will affect the degree of damage.


                      • #12
                        Allowed Motors

                        Originally posted by FTC2818

                        Since only the motors listed in rule <RE09> are allowed, it's important to me that we can show that our motors are "legal" at inspection time.

                        I'm having issues with the part numbers for the Modern Robotics (MATRIX) motors.

                        RE09 lists the following MATRIX motors as legal: MATRIX: 50-0012, 50-0013, 50-0014, 50-0073

                        However, on the Modern Robotics website, the individual "FTC Legal" 6mm shaft motor is listed as SKU: 50-0120, and the part number designation on the motor itself is 14-0020

                        Neither of these match the manual.

                        Will this cause a problem at inspection, and how should we show the inspectors that these are approved motors?

                        The Game Manual Part 1 has been recently updated to remove all specific part numbers. The following motors are legal, regardless of the part number assigned to the product by the manufacturer:

                        • TETRIX 12V DC Motor
                        • AndyMark NeveRest series 12V DC Motors
                        • Modern Robotics/MATRIX 12V DC Motors
                        • REV Robotics HD Hex 12V DC Motor
                        • MATRIX 9.6V


                        • #13
                          RM01 - Maximum Gear Ratio

                          Originally posted by FTC11123
                          Is there a maximum number of gears or any other restriction on gear ratios for a motor? My team is asking if they can combine gears to achieve an 18:1 gear ratio based on the Tetrix motor generating 152 RPM and their need to reach 1650 RPM.
                          A: No, there are no restrictions on gear ratios.


                          • #14
                            Is a mini-bot attached with an elevated scissor extension to a main-bot legal?

                            Originally posted by FTC12357
                            Our team has a minibot that comes off of the main robot, the wires are run from the mainbot to the minbot on a rigid scissor extension that is raised 28 inches above the ground to eliminate the risk of entanglement. It is very similar to this robot design for the 2012-2013 Ring It Up! game except we raise our scissor extension up higher and we do not have slack wires ever (The wires are secured directly to the metal scissor extension bars). Our plan is to bring the minibot back to the mainbot and stop using it as soon as anyone raises to the height of our scissor extension, to prevent tipping both their robot and our robot from tipping over.

                            Question 1: Right now, we are using the minibot just to help pickup particles and bring them to the mainbot to be launched, is this legal?

                            Question 2: We are also considering adding a beacon button pusher to it so it can help us claim the beacons during end game and autonomous, is this legal?

                            Answer 1: The Game Design Committee enjoys seeing how Teams solve the annual game challenge and this Robot is a very creative approach to playing VELOCITY VORTEX.

                            The Game Design Committee is not able to give absolute approval to the Robot without an in-person inspection. A Robot Inspector at an event will confirm that the Robot complies with all the construction rules. All that the Game Design Committee can say is that in general, the mini-bot/main-Robot concept described in the post does not appear to violate any construction rules. Keep in mind that the entire Robot must comply with the Robot starting volume rule, <G3>.

                            While the construction of the Robot appears to be legal, compliance with game rules will be decided by referees during Match play. Complying with the following game rules could be more challenging for this Robot than it is for a more conventional Robot design.

                            <S1> Unsafe Robot
                            <G15> Destruction, Damage, Tipping, etc.
                            <G13> Robots Deliberately Detaching Parts
                            <G16> Pinning, Trapping, or Blocking Robots
                            <G20> Timely removal of Robots from the Playing Field at the end of a Match
                            <GS9> Particle interference
                            <GS10> Blocking Access to an opposing Alliance's Scoring Elements
                            <GS11> Cap Ball interference

                            Blocking Robots, Scoring Elements, and launched Particles are of particular concern. A Robot this big could be a real barrier to allowing free access to Particles, Cap Balls, and Vortex goals.

                            Rule <G13> is also a major issue. Robot parts that are released but remain connected by a tether and interfere with an opposing Alliance Robot are considered detached for the purpose of this rule. If the mini-bot or connecting scissor extension interfere with an opposing Alliance Robot, a Major Penalty and a Yellow Card will be issued.

                            Finally, for your consideration, how will the mini-bot and rigid scissor extension hold up against a Robot playing defense directly against the mini-bot? FIRST Tech Challenge games are highly interactive; Robot-to-Robot contact and defensive game play should be expected. Is the mini-bot and scissor extension robust enough to survive a push or impact from another Robot?

                            Answer 2: Answer #1 also applies to Question #2.


                            • #15
                              &lt;G15&gt; Destruction, Damage, Tipping, etc. - Robot dragging a cable around the field

                              Originally posted by FTC8390
                              Question: Is it legal to build a robot that is comprised of 2 minibots connected together by a long tether that stretches across the field?

                              Answer: A Robot that drags a cable around the Playing Field Floor is an entanglement risk and is not allowed by rule <G15>.

                              Additional concerns include:
                              1) Particles and Cap Balls drug by the tether would be considered Controlled.
                              2) Rule <G13> consequences of a Major Penalty and Yellow Card will be issued if a mini-bot or the tether affects game play by an opposing Alliance Robot.