Game Rules - Answer Thread

[Air Jordan]

<GS13> Mountain Scoring Constraints - Completely On the Mountain vs. On the Mountain

Rule GS13 states:

"Robots may Score Debris into the Low Zone Goal and engage the Low Zone Zip Line Trigger from any location on the Playing Field. Robots are required to be Completely On the Mountain and the Robot’s drivetrain (e.g. wheels, tread) must only be in contact with the portions of the Mountain above the two inch tall buffer Area that is defined by white gaffers tape located at the bottom/entrance to the Mountain ramp...."

Q: If you have one set of wheels on the mountain above the buffer area and one set of wheels completely off of the mountain and on the mats, can you touch the cliff pull up bar or deposit game elements in the alliance's high or mid goals without violating a rule?

A: No, the scenario described in the question violates rule <GS13> because the Robot is both On the Mountain and On the Playing Field floor. Robots are required to be Completely On the Mountain and the Robot's entire drivetrain must only be in contact with the portions of the Mountain above the two inch tall buffer Area that is defined by white gaffers tape located at the bottom/entrance to the Mountain ramp to perform the actions described in the question. See section 1.4 of the Game Manual Part 2 for the definitions of "On" and "Completely On."

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS7&gt; Debris Possession/Control Constraint - Sweeper mechanism clearing Debris

Our team has a sweeper mechanism consisting of zip ties on a spindle that rotates in the front of our robot. We use it to clear debris during the autonomous period, and to purposefully move debris into the low goal during the tele-op period. The intent of using the sweeper is that when the robot contacts debris, the debris is in contact with the sweeper for a very short moment, after which it is flung forward. The width of the sweeper is such that there can never be more than a couple of debris items contacting it at one time.

Q: If our robot goes through a large cluster of debris, and within a short time, moves more than 5 pieces of debris (while never being in contact with more than 2 or 3 pieces at one time), does this violate <GS7>?

The definition of possession is:
Possess / Possessing – An object is considered to be in Possession by a Robot if, as the Robot moves or changes orientation (e.g. moves forward, turns, backs up, spins in place), the object remains in approximately the same position relative to the Robot. Objects in Possession of a Robot are considered to be Controlled, and they are part of the Robot. See also Control/Controlling.

In our design's case, once an object is flung away, changes in our robot's orientation result in a change of position of the object relative to the robot. While we may very quickly contact many pieces of debris, we think we even more quickly lose our possession of the objects as defined above.

Thanks in advance for your response!
- Team 2887

A: The question addresses only Possession of Debris; Rule <GS7> also includes Control of Debris. Referees will keep in mind both Possession and Control when they apply rule <GS7>. The actions described in the question do not violate rule <GS7>.

Additional related information: Robots that use a fan to move Scoring Elements can Control Debris without being in contact with the Debris. If in the referee's opinion, the fan is being used to Control the blown Debris, <GS7> consequences should apply.

[Air Jordan]

Section 1.5.2.4 Autonomous Period - Parking in a Rescue Beacon Repair Zone

At our most recent event a question arose during the autonomous period as it relates to parking in the zones. Here is the scenario.

During autonomous, a robot makes its way to the beacon repair zone. When it stops, none of the robots wheels are in the zone or touching the tape. However, a portion of the robot extends into the beacon repair zone but is not touching the floor. Our question is this:
Q1: Would that be considered parked in the zone?
Q2: Further, what constitutes parking in the zone? Several people at the tournament expressed different interpretations of what constitutes parking in the rescue beacon repair zone.

We are just wanting to get some clarification as to how the GDC is wanting "parking in the zone" to be interpreted.

A1: Yes, the Robot described in the question is Parked In the Rescue Beacon Repair Zone and it should earn five points.

A2: Section 1.5.2.4 requires that a Robot must be Parked In their Alliance's Rescue Beacon Repair Zone at the end of the Autonomous period to earn five points. It is important to note that the terms "Parked" and "In" in section 1.5.2.4 have italics formatting with the first letter capitalized. Words in the Game Manual that are formatted in italics with their first letter capitalized have specific meanings in the context of the game FIRST RES-Q. In the Game Q&A Forum, the special defined terms have their first letter capitalized and italics formatting is not used for simplicity. A visit to the Game Definitions section (1.4) of the Game Manual Part 2 is in order to understand the conditions that are required to earn points for Parking In the Rescue Beacon Repair Zone.

The definitions of "Parked" and "In" in the context of FIRST RES-Q are:

Park / Parked - A Robot that is motionless.

In(side) / Completely In(side) - An object that has crossed into the vertical (i.e. at a right angle to the Playing Field tile floor) extension of a defined Area's boundary is Inside the Area. An object that is entirely within the vertical extension of a defined Area's boundary is Completely Inside the Area.

The definition of "In" uses the defined term "Area." The definition of "Area" in the context of FIRST RES-Q is:

Area - The space defined by the vertical projection of the outside edge of a region's boundary (e.g. gaffers tape, Goal, Playing Field Wall). The boundary element (tape, wall, markings, etc.) is considered to be part of the Area for the purposes of determining Inside and Outside.

Combining the description of the Scoring achievement with the definitions of "Parked," "In," and "Area" we can determine the requirements for a Robot to be counted as Scored for Parking In the Rescue Beacon Repair Zone. "Parked," requires that the Robot must be motionless. "In," indicates that any portion of the Robot has to have crossed into the vertical extension of a defined Area's boundary. The definition of "Area," specifies that the outer edge of the gaffers tape is the starting boundary of the Rescue Beacon Repair Zone. The Game Manual didn't use the defined terms "Supported" or "On". Since the Game Manual didn't require the Robot to be "Supported" by, "On," or "Completely Inside" the Rescue Beacon Repair Zone Area, all that is required is for a Robot to extend Into the Area.

Therefore, a motionless Robot with any portion Inside the outer edge of the gaffers tape boundary of the Alliance's Rescue Beacon Repair Zone at the conclusion of the Autonomous period will earn five points.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS5&gt; - Autonomous Period Robot Keep Out Area - First 10 seconds

The rules state that robots may not enter the opposing alliance area during the first part of the autonomous period. In one part of the rules it says 5 seconds and the other it says 10 seconds. How many seconds is it?

A: The length of time that Robots may not enter the opposing Alliance's Area of the Playing Field during the Autonomous Period is ten seconds. See rule <GS5> for the complete details. The first release of the Game Manual Part 2 incorrectly listed the Robot keep out time in the rule summary table as five seconds. This error was corrected in revision 1.1 of the Game Manual Part 2.

[Air Jordan]

Navigation Aids for the Rescue Beacons

Does the rescue beacon have any kind of signal or distinguishing mark such as an infrared transmitter or something else that robots can use as a navigation aid?

A: The Rescue Beacon unit does not have a special purpose, built-in navigation aid. Robots may use the blue and red visible light LEDs that are located inside the Rescue Beacon as a navigation aid. The Playing Field floor in front of the Rescue Beacon has a navigation aid consisting of a two foot (0.61 meters) long, one inch (0.025 meters) wide strip of white gaffers tape that leads to the centerline of the Rescue Beacon. See the FIRST RES-Q Field Setup Guide for a description of the placement of the white navigation tape.

The FIRST RES-Q Playing Field does not have the IR Beacon that was used in last season's FIRST Tech Challenge game.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS7&gt; Debris Possession/Control Constraint - Autonomous

We have read the previous posts (#72) on plowing during the autonomous period http://ftcforum.usfirst.org/showthre...ll=1#post21668

The crux of this seems to boil down the the referee determining Intent. As we watch videos and participate in various official events, we have seen that intent is being interpreted differently and not consistently. We're all human and that's not unexpected. We do believe that a little further clarity and consistency would help the entire community, refs & players.

A most common autonomous path to deliver climbers to the shelter/beacon is:

A square bumper robot drives close to and parallel to the mountain, then turns near/in the floor goal to approach the beacon. Robots typically will be plowing more than 5 debris, and most often some are left in the scoring zone

Q1 - Is this scenario considered strategic plowing and to be penalized?

Q2 - If the blocks are not scored but left outside the floor goal, they would still seem to be left in a strategic position. Either in front of the floor goal or the opponents mountain: Would this scenario also result in a penalty?


In short, there are not a lot of spots for plowed blocks to end up in between the starting wall and beacon which don't have a strategic component, thus intent. If debris end in the beacon repair zone, they are also strategically close to the floor goal, but a direct path to the beacon zone seams generally not being penalized.

A: The scenarios described in this question are allowed and no <GS7> penalties should be applied.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS7&gt; Debris Possession/Control Constraint - Autonomous

Our goal for autonomous is to have our robot push the button on the beacon, put the climbers in the basket, and then climb up the ramp. Our autonomous starts by clearing the front of the ramp of debris, while on its it way to the beacon. More than five pieces of debris may be unintentionally brought with us into the scoring zone while on our path to press the beacon's button. However, this debris is immediately pushed out of the scoring zone on our way to the button and basket. Considering what post #72 describes in item c ("Clearing Debris from blocking access to the Mountain; provided that the Debris is not moved to block the entrance Area of the opposing Alliance's side of the Mountain or to Score in a Floor Goal."), would pushing the debris into the scoring zone cause us to incur a penalty, even if they are not "Scored" at the end of autonomous.

A: The scenario described in the question is allowed and no <GS7> penalties should be applied. The described de-Scoring of Debris from the Floor Goal is irrelevant to the application of rule <GS7>.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;S1&gt; Unsafe Robot - Powering motors after the Match ends

Q: Would a robot that is designed with a PID or other type of software system that prevents a motor from back driving be legal if the motor is still powered and receiving the software command from the RC after a match is over? The drive team would not be touching any controls and the robot would not be moving. A command would be given at the end of hang to make sure the robot's weight while hanging doesn't back drive the motor.

A: The actions described in the question are not allowed. See post #66 ("Message from the Game Design Committee - Stopping Robots at the end of the Match") in the Game Rules forum for a description of the required procedure to stop game play.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS10&gt; Ingress into an opposing Alliance Climbing Area - Autonomous

During autonomous, rule <GS10> states that you can enter the opposing alliance's mountain area without penalty. However, when the driver-controlled period starts, would the penalty for entering the area be:
- assessed at the start of the driver-controlled period.
- assessed after 5 seconds (like other rules).
- or would the referees move the robot to the floor?

-Team 8702

A: The required actions for Robots to take in order to avoid <GS10> penalties and guidance for Referees to apply the rule are described in the four paragraph description of rule <GS10> in the Game Manual Part 2. The third paragraph of the rule addresses the specific question asked in this post.

[Air Jordan]

Mountain High Zone Boundary

Q: Where is the boundary of the high zone on the aluminum extrusions that support the churros and the mid zone goal? Is the boundary a plane that is perpendicular to the colored panel or a plane that is parallel to the floor and does that plane go through the center of the churro or touch the churro somewhere else?

A: The High Zone Area starts just above the third churro from the bottom of the Mountain. The third churro is Completely Inside the Mid Zone. Each Churro is located Completely Inside a Zone; a churro is not split into two different zones. Starting from the bottom of the Mountain:

a) the first three churros are Completely Inside the Mid Zone Area;
b) the next four churros (4, 5, 6, and 7) are Completely Inside the High Zone Area;
c) the Cliff Low Bar churro is Completely Inside the Cliff Zone.

The boundary plane is perpendicular to the red and blue panels and it does not intersect or touch the churro.

[Air Jordan]

Section 1.5.4.1 - Robot Supported by the Cliff Pull-up Bar

Q1: In Rule 1.5.4.1 in the Game Manual Part 2 (Cliff Pull-up Bar) it says that, "If the Cliff Vertical Divider, Cliff Low Bar and the opposing Alliance Robot are removed from the Mountain, a Robot that is Fully Supported from the Cliff Pull-up Bar would not fall from the Cliff." What does "fall from the Cliff" mean?
Q2: If the robot would hit the third section if you removed some of the Mountain parts, but otherwise be supported if you also removed that section, would it still get the points for the Cliff Pull-up Bar?

A1: A Robot that has "Fallen from the Cliff" is not Fully Supported by the Cliff Zone Pull-up Bar (i.e. the Cliff Pull-up Bar is not bearing all of the Robot's weight).

A2: Yes.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;G22&gt; Robot or Scoring Element In two or more Scoring Areas

According to Section 1.5.2 in the second manual, it states under section 4 and 5 that you can get five points for being parked in that section. Since the field has those sections so close to each other, is it possible to have your robot be in both at once, getting 10 points?

A: No, per rule <G22>.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS7&gt; Debris Possession/Control Constraint - Clearing Debris from Mountain entrance

Your answer to post #31 in the Game Rules Q&A Forum thread states:

"The intent of the Game Design Committee is to allow Robots to clear Debris from blocking access to the Mountain without incurring <GS7> Penalties; provided that the Debris is not moved to block the entrance Area of the opposing Alliance's side of the Mountain or to Score in a Floor Goal."

When a team is trying to enter their Mountain on their side of the field, their Mountain entrance has their floor goal immediately to one side of the entrance and the opposing Alliance's side immediately to the other side. If a large amount of debris is placed in front of this Mountain entrance by the opposing alliance, this entrance is essentially blocked as it is impossible to clear debris from blocking access to the Mountain without either moving debris into the Floor Goal or in front of the entrance Area of the opposing Alliance's side of the Mountain.

In this situation, are there any legal options for clearing a Mountain entrance? Should intentionally placing debris in front of these Mountain entrances result in a Blocking Access penalty as it essentially prevents a team from being able to enter their side of the Mountain without incurring other penalties as described in post #31? It seems as though allowing teams to block these particular Mountain entrances, combined with the penalties described in post #31, "breaks the game" as it means there is no way to clear these blocked Mountain entrances without incurring penalties.

Any advice you can provide on what is and is not allowed in this situation is appreciated.

A: In the scenario described in the post, Robots may avoid <GS7> Penalties while clearing Debris from the entrance Area to their Alliance's Mountain Climbing Area by moving the Debris through/past the the opposing Alliance's Mountain entrance Area and depositing them where they don't block the entrance Area to the opposing Alliance's Climbing Area. In this scenario, the Robot has cleared the Debris from Blocking Access to the entrances of both the Red and Blue Alliance Mountain Climbing Areas.

[Air Jordan]

&lt;GS11&gt; Interfering with Climbing Robots

GS11 says "During the Driver-Controlled Period, a Robot may not make contact with an opposing Alliance Robot that is Completely In its Alliance’s Mountain Climbing Area...

Climbing the Mountain and performing a pull-up In the Cliff Zone may place Robots in precarious situations. The intent of this rule is to prevent outside forces from: disrupting the stability of a Robot, preventing a Robot from placing Debris into a Mountain Goal, or interfering with a Robot that is Supported by the Pull-up Bar."

It is possible for a robot to be Completely On but not Completely In the Mountain Climbing Area while placing debris in a mountain goal or attempting a pull-up (e.g., a robot could be in the low zone hooked onto the low churro with a small part of the robot extending out over the floor tiles and thus not "Completely In" the Mountain Climbing Area as defined in the Game Manual Part II). The rule as stated says that GS11 only applies if a robot is Completely In the Climbing Area, but the "intent of this rule" section makes it sound as though the GDC may have intended for GS11 to apply to any robots that are Completely On the Mountain Climbing Area instead (as robots Completely On the mountain climbing area are in the precarious situation described, even if not Completely In the area).

For examples of robots that are Completely On but not Completely In the Mountain Climbing Area, see the following two links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1IUPuG5YzQ&t=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_Ic7mhVlI&t=170

Can you clarify if the GDC intends for GS11 to apply to robots Completely In the area (as currently written) or Completely On the area (as hinted by the "intent of this rule" statement)? Does the GDC intend for robots in this type of position to be subject to defensive contact/collisions from opposing alliance robots, or no?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

A: The intent of the Game Design Committee is for <GS11> protections to also apply to a Robot that is both Completely On the Mountain and is not extending into the Opposing Alliance's Climbing Area.

[Air Jordan]

What is &quot;bearing at least some of the weight?&quot;

Support is defined in the game manual as:

Support / Supported / Completely Supported – A Robot is Supported by an object if that object is bearing at least some of the weight of the Robot. If the object is bearing all of the Robot’s weight, the Robot is Fully Supported by the object.

What does it mean to be "bearing at least some of the weight"?

A: "Bearing" can be replaced with "carry," "hold up," or "prop up." "Weight" is a body's relative mass or the quantity of matter contained by it, giving rise to a downward force.

In the context of the game FIRST RES-Q, examples of Support (i.e. bearing at least some of the weight of an object) are:

1. The Mountain Supports a Robot that is Parked On or Completely On the Mountain.
2. A churro Supports a Robot that is On it.
3. A Robot that is resting against the side of a churro (i.e. preventing the Robot from moving down the Mountain), is Supported by the churro.
4. The Pull-up Bar Supports a Robot that is hanging from it.